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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 27, 2004 8:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Sneak peak - details page

With the oncoming new format options, a new interface has become available. A sneak peak is available for Fat Chelsea's concert:

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=2097&from=forumPost

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Poster: dgrayshn Date: Jan 27, 2004 9:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

wow that is just messy..there is way too much going on there..

just goes to show thinking big is the american way but it isnt always the best way.. thats my 2 cents

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Poster: Prof Frink Date: Jan 27, 2004 9:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

The 128kbps stream is smooth. It will make it much easier to check out shows and with only one click of the mouse. It don't get much lazier than that. And lazy is all good by me.

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Poster: Donald V Date: Jan 27, 2004 4:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

I didn't see an option to download the entire show in shn...

and also when you go to the download options page it seems kind of messy there too

Donald :)

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Poster: xtifr Date: Jan 28, 2004 9:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Agree on both points, also would prefer to download entire shows as flac (smaller, faster, and supported by my OS vendor, unlike shn). Also, I'm curious, if there is going to be id3 data for mp3s, is there going to be the equivant metadata provided for ogg and flac? (Ogg and flac use basically the same metadata format.)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 28, 2004 10:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Full shows in SHN (or FLAC) --> ZIP (and the messiness)

At the end of this week I'll be reviewing the possibility of making ZIPs of whole shows in SHN or FLAC. The problem is that the current method we're using for the SHNs and FLACs is on-the-fly, which users have had nothing but trouble with. Since the MP3s are small, we have no problem zipping them up and using double the storage space on the server. But the SHNs and FLACs are large, and doubling the storage space is more of a concern with that much data. Regardless, we'll discuss it here and see what can be done.

BTW, I am correct in assuming that the current on-the-fly ZIPping of SHNs and FLACs is not working well for most people, right? (No resume, frequent aborting of the downloads, etc.)

As far as messy goes, we'll probably decide that some of the MP3 formats are extraneous and cut them out, leaving the interface a bit cleaner.

Jon

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Poster: cavemike Date: Jan 30, 2004 1:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Full shows in SHN (or FLAC) --> ZIP (and the messiness)

All of the shows I have downloaded from LMA have been Shn's & Flac's through the ZIP option. I have never had a bit of trouble with incomplete downloads or the dl stopping in midstream.

Love this place,
Mike

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Poster: thebuddhist Date: Feb 4, 2004 5:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Full shows in SHN (or FLAC) --> ZIP (and the messiness)

The zip on the fly downloads of shn/flac work fine for me on T1 and also on Cable. This convenience MUST be kept, it's the only way I download shows from the archive. DL'ng individual tracks would be a pain in the arse.

[moderated to remove question about lossy formats: "thebuddhist": please read through the previous forum posts - this has been thoroughly discussed]

This post was modified by Jonathan Aizen on 2004-02-04 13:13:44

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Feb 4, 2004 6:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ZIP

DL'ng individual tracks would be a pain in the arse.

FYI, most folks think that FTP works much better than the ZIP files for this (grabbing the whole show at once). Might want to try that too. If the download gets cut, you don't need to start over like you usually do with the ZIP files.

-Brad

This post was modified by bleblanc on 2004-02-04 14:04:42

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: Feb 4, 2004 9:08am
Forum: etree Subject: FTP

for what it is worth, i really liked the whole show zip files. I don't know about everyone else, but i kinda phased out my FTP use back when freecache started being used because at the time, the detrements of using the FTP side of it were:

1. slow downloads compared to the HTTP that freechace offered
2. FTP downloads didn't 'count' to the show's directory hit count

so are you suggesting a more shift back to the FTP side of it for the full shows? Speeds now should be identical with HTTP or FTP right? since the archive purchased more bandwidth and freecache has been phased out.

I think that if that is the decision made, not to have any links / files of the full loss-less shows on the details page, then some sort of PSA / Info should be posted directing people to FTP for the whole show, rather then the current 'tucked away' blurb about it in the bottom of the download options menu.

My person vote? I STRONGLY suggest we keep the on-the-fly .zip aspect of the full loss-less show. Putting the full show as a non-on the fly .zip file is unrealistic for space concerns, and it seems that most people (myself included) have never had problems with the on the fly .zip file.

True, if it errors we have to re-download, and that blows, but the option should be there for people to use. I think if we roll with the details pages the way they are now, with the only 'full show' options of two different mp3 bitrates and two different m3u streaming options, people will view those as the favored method of downloading, which they should NOT be. As we intended initially, these are supposed to be SUPPLEMENTAL, and not the main focus. I think we should not forget out loss-less goals and keep the zip file at least. If it is created on the fly, doesn't it cost the archive virtually nothing as far as utility cost of file space?

my two cents. I hope the zip comes back and stays! i loved it.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Feb 5, 2004 6:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ZIP's and SmartFTP Selection Groups

so are you suggesting a more shift back to the FTP side of it for the full shows?

Nope, I was just pointing out to thebuddhist that the ZIP files weren't the only means of getting a whole show in one sitting.

Resuming downloads via HTTP has always been flaky for me. I don't know if the blame is my ISP, my browser, or my computer. (i'm pretty sure it isn't the Archive). As a result, I'm strictly an FTP user. I queue up 3 or 4 shows and let it fly overnight. I wake up and they're all done. I know there have been others with similar issues with the ZIP's.

I don't think we should get rid of the feature unless it's problematic for the site (having the choice is fine with me), but I do think people need to know that the ZIP files aren't the only option for getting the whole show without clicking on each track.


As for FTPing, that too is going to become cumbersome for users because they'll have to click every file, since the directory will contain all the formats (and we're keeping it flat, not making a subdirectory for each format).

Not necessarily. SmartFTP, for example, has a feature called "Selection Groups", that will automatically highlight only certain file types for you within a directory on the server.

For example, I created 2 of them. The first one is called SHN, and it automatically highlights all the files with the *.shn, *.md5, and *.txt extensions for me. The other one is called FLAC, and it automatically highlights all the *.flac, *.txt, *.ffp, and *.md5's for me. Keeps it short and sweet to get into those new show folders with tons of choices, highlight the stuff I want, and queue up another download.

You can create the "Selection Groups" by going to Tools > Settings > Selection Groups (under the General section). Try it out. Once they are created, they show up in your menu section under View > Selection Groups > (whatever you name them). SmartFTP even goes so far as to automatically give you shortcut key combos - like "CTRL+3" & "CTRL+4"!!!

Not too cumbersome anymore... SmartFTP rocks.

-Brad

This post was modified by bleblanc on 2004-02-05 14:01:01

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Poster: glenn Date: May 5, 2004 5:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ZIP's and SmartFTP Selection Groups

I can't figure out _how_ to create the selection groups

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Poster: glenn Date: Jul 30, 2004 6:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ZIP's and SmartFTP Selection Groups

to create selection groups in smartftp:

tools>settings>selectiongroups

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Feb 5, 2004 9:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ZIP's and SmartFTP Selection Groups

Awesome!

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Poster: jmr3 Date: May 5, 2004 10:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ZIP's and SmartFTP Selection Groups

I don't know about other ftp programs, but with Filezilla, you can sort the files in the directory by file type, so all the .shn files are together, then shift-click on the group of files so they're all highlighted and you're ready to go.

Also, isn't it possible to download the zip files through ftp? I'm trying that right now (slow connection so I won't know how it goes for a while). It seems to be resumable that way. Should I expect to have problems when I unzip it?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Feb 4, 2004 9:20am
Forum: etree Subject: On-the-fly ZIPs

The on-the-fly ZIPping won't really work with the new configuration. The software as we have it written just ZIPs a whole directory. Clearly this won't work when there are 8 different formats all in the same directory. We are still figuring out how to do this, so it'll either be on-the-fly ZIPs for the shows in the lossless format, or it'll be pregenerated, but either way they will be there.

As for FTPing, that too is going to become cumbersome for users because they'll have to click every file, since the directory will contain all the formats (and we're keeping it flat, not making a subdirectory for each format).

Jon

This post was modified by Jonathan Aizen on 2004-02-04 17:20:13

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Poster: Erich Date: Jan 28, 2004 2:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Full shows in SHN (or FLAC) --> ZIP (and the messiness)

are the shns and flacs both 16 bit? If so, thats just a waste of space. Same files. Is it possible to clarify the bit next to the flac column? easier referance.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 30, 2004 1:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Full shows in SHN (or FLAC) --> ZIP (and the messiness)

Yes we can clarify the bit for the FLACs. The reason for making same bit FLACs from the SHNs is because FLAC is an emerging, open, standard that might overtake SHN as time goes on. Anyway, we're still in discussion about how to offer full show packages of SHN/FLAC files, so stay tuned.

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Poster: thoman8r Date: Jan 27, 2004 8:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Dunno if this just hasn't been implemented yet, but the VBR mp3 I downloaded from their doesn't have an ID3 tag.

Also, why isn't there an option to get the entire show in VBR?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 27, 2004 9:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Thanks for pointing out the ID3 issue. I added the ID3 embedding feature after I made those MP3s. I'll go remake them. They'll be available tonight or tomorrow.

As for packaging the ZIP files, I wanted to see which formats people wanted most before duplicating content. Its very easy to change the configuration so that VBR ZIP files are made.

Jon

This post was modified by Jonathan Aizen on 2004-01-27 17:06:11

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 27, 2004 9:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

2 questions.

Will 24bit shows be treated the same way as 16bit (MP3's = dither/resample?? i'm not sure...)?

When you log in via FTP, the show folder is pretty messy, any chance there are plans to separate the formats into their own folders?

This post was modified by bleblanc on 2004-01-27 17:22:03

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffsimon c Date: Jan 27, 2004 9:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

One comment - perhaps I don't understand VBR MP3s, but are the exact quality settings implied if you just say 'VBR MP3'?

For example, when I've used VBR in the past, I thought there was still some kbps information attached to it - like a file being encoded as a VBR MP3 with the thresholds of 128kbps and 256kbps.

So that's my comment - does everyone else get a quality implication from 'VBR MP3' without any kbps reference? If so, I'll shuddup :)

Otherwise, looking good.

s!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 27, 2004 9:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

One comment - perhaps I don't understand VBR MP3s, but are the exact quality settings implied if you just say 'VBR MP3'?

The default level is 4 (scale of 10) using LAME unless you manually specify something else.

When it comes to bitrate, if the content has very little info, it will be able to give a lower average bitrate and smaller file than something with more content. In other words, one song that's quiet might need an average of 117kbps bitrate, while a louder song in the same show will need 163kpbs to reach the same sounding quality.

This post was modified by bleblanc on 2004-01-27 17:20:08

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Poster: thoman8r Date: Jan 27, 2004 9:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

I could be wrong but I believe the --alt-preset standard option on LAME uses q=2.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 27, 2004 12:12pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

It might be different depending on which version, but by typing "lame --help" I get the below.

RECOMMENDED:
lame -h input.wav output.mp3

OPTIONS:
-b bitrate set the bitrate, default 128 kbps
-f fast mode (lower quality)
-h higher quality, but a little slower. Recommended.
-k keep ALL frequencies (disables all filters)
Can cause ringing and twinkling
-m mode (s)tereo, (j)oint, (m)ono or (a)uto
default is (j) or (s) depending on bitrate
-V n quality setting for VBR. default n=4

--preset type type must be "standard", "extreme", "insane",
or a value for an average desired bitrate and depending on
the value specified, appropriate quality settings will be us
ed.
"--preset help" gives some more infos on these

--longhelp full list of options

This post was modified by bleblanc on 2004-01-27 20:12:33

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Poster: thoman8r Date: Jan 27, 2004 12:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Right, that's the *default* if you use the -V option by itself, but I believe Jon is using the --alt-preset standard option, which supercedes the other options. I believe the settings for *standard* are q=2 with everything averaging ~ 192 kbps

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 27, 2004 2:30pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

We're using --preset standard, not --alt-preset (which is supposedly deprecated). But I don't think there is a difference in terms of output.

This post was modified by Jonathan Aizen on 2004-01-27 22:30:47

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffForrest O. Date: Feb 17, 2004 7:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that it was --preset that was deprecated, and --alt-preset that is the updated, higher quality version... I know that eMusic uses --alt-preset standard, and it sounds great.

From http://lame.sourceforge.net/doc/html/switchs.html#-preset
:
* --preset presetName use built-in preset
Use one of the built-in presets (phone, phon+, lw, mw-eu, mw-us, sw, fm, voice, radio, tape, hifi, cd, studio).

* --alt-preset presetName use updated and much higher quality "alternate" presets
Use one of the built-in alternate presets (standard, fast standard, extreme, fast extreme, insane, or the abr/cbr modes).

This post was modified by Forrest O. on 2004-02-17 15:56:32

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Feb 17, 2004 8:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

From the LAME man page:

--alt-preset [fast] type | [cbr] kbps
Use one of the built-in presets.

This option is deprecated and offers the same as the --preset option above. Do not use it anymore, it will go away in a later version.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffForrest O. Date: Feb 17, 2004 8:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Where is the LAME man page? The info I found above seems to be at odds with it. Does this mean that the "standard" that is deemed transparent is now ~128kbps, down from ~192kbps?

But this page does not show "standard" as being a --preset option, only an --alt-preset option. --preset options include phone, phon+, lw, mw-eu, mw-us, sw, fm, voice, radio, tape, hifi, cd, and studio.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffForrest O. Date: Feb 17, 2004 9:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Ok, I think my confusion stems from looking at the bitrate while one of these VBRs was streaming to my computer, and seeing a bitrate hovering around 128kbps... http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=8057

So the --alt-preset options are being subsumed by --preset? That makes sense.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Feb 17, 2004 10:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Yes. The LAME man page can be accessed by typing "man lame" on any Unix system or here:

http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man1/lame.1.html

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Poster: asder23 Date: Feb 26, 2008 4:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Thanks for link. I find his 2 weks )
Music mp3 online
Mp3 download online

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Poster: asder23 Date: Feb 26, 2008 4:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Sneak peak - details page

Rap
  • Rap: Hip-Hop
  • Reggae
  • Relaxing music
  • Retro
  • Rock
  • Rock & Roll


    This post was modified by asder23 on 2008-02-26 12:16:05

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